Sunday, February 10, 2008

Mine to Possess Spoiler Thread

This is the thread where you can freely discuss Mine to Possess and the previous books in the Psy/Changeling series. *SPOILERS* allowed, so if you haven't read MtP yet, click away! This link will take you back to the main blog.

So, if you're sure this is where you want to be....let the discussion begin!

Also, if you're looking for the Caressed By Ice Spoiler thread, follow the link.

For those of you who aren't bloggers, you can still comment - just choose the Anonymous option and sign off the comment with your name if you'd like folks to know who you are.

NB: I might pop in now and then as time allows, but this is really for readers. If there are specific questions you want to ask me, email's better. Have fun!

77 comments :

Aymless said...

My glad the we finally have a description for Ming. I had horrible pictures of Ming the Merciless from the 1984 Flash Gordon running through my head! *grin*

osbourne300 said...

MOP was a great read.

This book was mainly about Clay. It was actually amazing to hear him say more than one word at a time. Tally (his mate), was a nice character to read about. It was actually sad to read about what she had gone through, but it was great to see that she over came her obstacles, to become a powerful mate to Clay.


Of course we have Lucas and Sasha darling, and the rest of the pack. We get to learn about some other characters and other changelings.eg, snakes and rats.


I loved the book, and am looking for to Dorian's book, later in the year.

Nalini,

A wonderful read.
JJ

Anonymous said...

Nalini,
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought of Ming as the Flash Gordon Ming. In addition to the relationship between Clay and Tally, the new characters(especially the head of Shine, and Max),and more information about the other characters made the book great. I can't wait for the next book. You always have something new for the readers to learn in each book.

rtamib

Christina said...

MTP was an awesome read, Nalini! Each book just keeps bringing me in more and more.

My only complaint (if it is possible to even have one in this book) was the absense of Hawke and Sienna. I really love those two. . .

But seeing Judd again with Brenna was wonderful! And as other have said, finally having a description of Ming is great. I really, really can't wait for Hostage now, and the teaser you have in the book makes the wait that much harder.

Katie(babs) said...

So, Nalini,
Is Kaleb the ghost?
And Clay was just so sexy. Major sighs on my end.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed MTP, behind Visions of Heat it was my favorite. I loved the interaction between Clay and Tally. The only thing that I would have liked to have seen more was Clay's relationship with Faith. At the end of Visions it seemed as if they had a strong friendship and it was hinted at in the beginning of MTP. It seemed as if Clay's relationship with Sasha was more of a focus. I only say this because I love love love Vaughn and Faith. I did like that MTP set up Dorians book. September can not get here fast enough.
I do recommend MTP.

alice chow said...

I'm not very good at starting these things, so I'm just going to say that I LOVED Mine to Possess. I had to debate with myself intensely whether or not to get the book the moment I found out about it because I knew something happened to Tally. Sexual abuse subjects especially child abuses, are really hard for me to read about (CBI was already hard enough). Very often, the characters are not strong enough, continually victimized, or have sudden recovery. Tally’s situation was extremely well done-realistic, yet hopeful, although I did have to not read it for a few days to calm down. It was very well handled and I loved Clay and Tally’s interaction. So cute with their “brat/bully.”
A little backtrack from CBI and jumping ahead; there's confirmation from the excerpt of Hostage to Pleasure that Ashaya Alaine and Dorian are going to be mated. Especially since Keenan linked with Dorian. Since this will have Dorian off market, so to speak, does anyone else think the Mercy could hook up with Riley? The likelihood of that had gone up, yes?
I also want Walker and Indigo to couple up. Don’t ask my why. I just think it would be cute.
We also got introduced to Max, Dev, and Teijan. Would LOVE to know more on them, but that’ll probably be in the second arch…the reconstruction period. Hehehehe.
So, Dev is a Forgotten? Yes? Teehee. Max was hot.
The ShadowNet is also revealed and so many new ideas. I’m rather curious about Kaleb, too. Is he really the Ghost? Or maybe something different?
I love being able to see how the other characters are doing. Faith and Vaughn, Sacsha and Lucas. Even Judd and Brenna! Let me agree with Christina and say…only there was Sienna. Hahaha. I do love that girl.
I think one of the most telling lines about the greatness of Ms. Nalini’s writing skills is when Judd tried to explain to Tally that there was no easy answer to dealing with their situations.
Have more thoughts, but would rather discuss than rant on by myself. As much as I love my own voice, I’d love to see more speculations. ^_^
One things for sure, each book becomes increasingly intense. So hard to wait for the next book! >_<
xoxo,
alice
P.S. I already ordered the upcoming novella. Hahaha. Such a nerd am I.

Barbara V said...

I also like the introduction of Teijan as a new kind of shapeshipters. A rat sounds sexy, isn't it?
I loved the interaction between Tally and Clay. Great story!
I can't wait for Dorian story. I might be wrong but it looks like he is going to mated a Psy. Hmm, that should be an interesting story.
I also liked to hear from mercy, I bet she is going to get mated to a wolf, that should be another hot story. Any excerpts on that one?

alice chow said...

The weirdest thought just occurred to me. If Mercy does not hook up with a SnowDancer (coughrileycough), maybe her and Walker? I don't know, I still want Walker and Indigo, although Indigo can work with Andrew. She'll put him in his place. Hahaha.

Anyhow, I was re-reading the Books section of Behind the Scenes. If Ms. Nalini hasn't started of Riley and Andrew, then the likelihood of Mercy and Riley would be a little less than my own hopes.

As long as there's Sienna I'm happy. And Mercy...and Indigo. Cuz they kick major butt.

Teijan did sound sexy. And I wanted to meet the snake changeling too!

About Ming...from the description in the first book, I always had this image of a very white asian. I know this sounds horrible, but remember the really old 50s, 60s movies? When asian americans weren't allowed to take leading roles, the movies had white actors and actresses "dress up" to be Asian. That's kinda how I saw Ming. Hahaha, so bad.
I like old movies >_<.

Barbara said...

This was a fantastic book. I was moved and hard put to put it down. While I liked the brat/bully interplay between Tally and Clay, I loved Tally's nickname for Dorian. I hope, despite Dorian's hatred for the name, that it sticks. He just seems like a "boy genius" to me. From the first book Dorian stood out for me. I am glad that his story finally comes to the forefront. I'm anxiously awaiting HTP.

I loved the intricacies of Tally and Clay's relationship. Their love was meant to be from childhood, despite everything that happened. I'm glad Tally was able to overcome her fears...

Can i have the next book now? Please?? It's just so much fun reading about these characters. I love how three-dimensional the world is, i'm just there. Love it!

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed very much Clay and Tally's story, and can't wait for Hostage To Pleasure. I just read the excerpt and was very glad to see my suspicions confirmed as to who was going to be Dorian's mate. Ashaya is a very complex and therefore very promising character.
What I am really, REALLY looking forward to, though, is Kaleb's story. I know it can't come for a while yet, seeing how he still has a major role to play in the PsyNet and is bound to stay linked to it (and thus Silent), but I hope Ms. Singh will write it eventually. And wouldn't it be just great if his mate were Sienna? (I don't think Sienna is Hawke's mate: she is still a teenager at 17, and he is already 32 - the age difference is a bit much.) Well, anyway, Kaleb and Sienna... He cold and emotionless, she volatile, but still Silent. Both EXTREMELY powerful Tks. I know a story of these two people falling for each other would be very difficult to write indeed, but Ms. Singh is such a talented writer and she could do it beautifully. And the interaction of these two fascinating characters would be a joy to watch (read about). But I guess all this is just wishful thinking...

Anonymous said...

Nalini,
thank you for MTP! - It was wonderfull to read. Is a pity, that September is still far away...

I´m wondering about the age discussions between Sienna and Hawke. - I think that the 15-years are not a problem. (If Sienna is really Hawke`s mate. - What I hope). In the past, the women were always younger than the men. - So I think the age difference is O.K..

Maybe Ming`ll play an important part in Siennas future? Somehow I got this impression during reading the first books...

alice chow said...

Barbara~I think the nickname for Dorian will definitely stick...and I'd love to see Ashaya call him that. Ahahaha, can you imagine his response? You also think Mercy's going to mate a wolf right? I'm not just being delusional!!!

On the issue of Sienna/Hawke/Kaleb. Both men are much older...much older (IMO). If Tamsyn and Nate can have a 10+ age difference and they mated when she was rather young, then I guess Sienna can hook up with an older man. I just want read about her is all. Final book!!! Mwhahahahahaha. *coughs*

Christina said...

Alice, I completely agree with all of your posts! ^_^

I don't know if Kaleb is the Ghost or not. I wanted him to be simply so we would see more of him and get his own story. . . but I think he is the "something else" you said. And the idea of him and Sienna . . . well, if she isn't Hawke's mate, then I would definitely have to say Kaleb. I can't picture her with anyone else.

And I definitely got vibes for Mercy and Riley. Can changelings intermarry?

And Dorian and the M-psy is perfect! I was wondering how Faith's vision/feeling would come to be. Since she said she could resequence DNA (or something like that) we now know how he will be able to shift into a leopard! Yay!

Jenny Schwartzberg said...

I think Sienna is Hawke's mate and I doubt she's a TK. In CBI Judd thinks to himself that her ability is very different from his though it is also martial.

I also think that Mercy and Riley will end up together which should be very interesting to read *grin*.

I think Dorian's transformation into leopard form will not be through Ashaya's M-Psy ability but when she and Keenan are really threatened and he manages to transform to protect them. Just a hunch here...

Anonymous said...

I`m also the opinion that Sienna is not a TK. According Judd:"TK it`s only her second ability".

By reading MTP I`m wondering about:
* Who controlls the dark mind?
* And who are the renegades? (If Kaleb wears a special sign; so they have to be more companions?)
- Is that the connection between Kaleb and Enrique? (Like Judd says in MTP: The Ghost have his own agenda. His "goodness" follows his own interests.

What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Actually, Judd's thoughts in CBI about Sienna are "...the telepathy everyone knew about was only her secondary talent. Her true strength was something so volatile, even Psy steered clear of those who had it." And since there was that one scene where something crashes in Hawke's office, then Sienna comes striding out, with the door slamming shut behind her, I had also kind of assumed she was a (specialized) Tk. But if that isn't so, then she may be of a designation that hasn't been mentioned yet...
As most of us seem to believe Sienna is Hawke's mate (I, personally, would prefer Kaleb for her), why do you think the mating bond/pull between them hasn't manifested yet? Sienna is old enough (Remember, Tammy was 15, when her bond to Nate snapped into being) and wouldn't be blocking the bond as Judd did, because she has already begun to feel (in CBI, she admits to pain)...
About the DarkMind... In MTP we learn that Kaleb is the one person who can exert "some" control over it. So he's role is really crucial in the series, it would seem.
And do you think the mark on his forearm (the reminder of what he is willing to do) is related with his decline at age 16, after having spent time with Enrique (the same week Enrique kidnapped -and destroyed- a female swan changeling)?
While I still believe it it very likely that Kaleb is the Ghost (the main proof being that the Ghost was shown to have access to some very classified information), this possibility was hinted at a little too obviously throughout the series, so it may all have been just a ploy so we readers get the wrong impression. And the excerpt of HTP already shows another possible candidate for the Ghost (the gray-eyed Tk, probably an Arrow).
~Adnana

Barbara said...

Adnana, your comment about the Arrow makes sense. The Arrows are under Ming's control, that doesn't mean they have to like it, right? Look at Judd. It is highly possible that the Arrow who talk to Aliene is Ghost.

If Kaleb is the Ghost, i dunno. He does seem to have ulterior motives, but i think he accomplished the bulk of his aims in becoming head of the Psy council. I'm sure in the next book, his true motives will begin to unfold. Then it will be a matter of time.

Perhaps he's the one who will bring an end to Silence. I think that is where the series is going. All these Psy are dropping out of the Net and mating with Changlings... That doesn't bode well for the stability of the Net. Psy will have to learn how to deal with emotion rather than suppress it or the race will go mostly extinct.

As for how Dorian gets his ability to shift back... i have a feeling that it will be in a time of need he finds himself able to shift. He probably always had the ability, but it wasn't the same as the others. As they keep mentioning, he has all the abilities of a strong leopard, but he can't shift. Perhaps there is something he doesn't realized happened that cause his inability to shift. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But I really don't want to wait. I want to read it now. I've been wanting Dorian's story since I first met him in StS. I understand why the ther stories had to come first, but i'm glad to finally see his story! Can't wait.

alice chow said...

Thanks Ms. Christina for agreeing with me ^.^ The part about changeling intermarrying sounds highly likely given Ms. Nalini's continual fun in teasing us with hints during the chat. I do want Mercy and Riley, but it's all up in the air. I can just see Mercy telling Riley to stuff it. Hahaha.

For Kaleb, it's really a hard debate on whether or not he's the Ghost. Is Ms. Nalini often misleading us? Or is it part of a greater scheme? Curveballs aside, it is obvious that Kaleb's role in this arch is huge, especially after the Darkmind revelation. Also, we should keep in mind the connection between Enrique and Kaleb was seen through Sascha darling's Mother's eyes. Where as the "mark" on Kaleb's arm and Darkmind was through Kaleb. In that case, the former could contain semi-truth and the latter reveals how Kaleb would be important.
I cannot quite remember where, but there was discussion at how the PsyNet's lack of emotions caused the separation of the NetMind and DarkMind. In this way, would Kaleb (among all the others we love) be the one to merge the two for a more "complete" PsyNet? Ms. Nalini is trying to create a revolution. As many of the characters often point out, if they just go in there and force people to feel again, it'll cause completely chaos. A new system need to be in place-especially for people with Judd and Sienna's ablities to "hold them in check" by not accidentally killing everyone around them. Ah, the carnage.

It's also obvious the Council power is a big issue. Ming, originally an Arrow, to rise into a Council member, but still controlling the Arrows is an interesting issue, too. Whereas that couple (for the life of me I cannot remember their names, Henry and whatshername) is also out to control the psy. Sacsha's Mom may not be completely bad, but she isn't good either. And Faith's Dad! I mean, come on, him joining the Council is a HUGE hint at something bigger.

As for the glimps of the Arrow in HTP speaking with Ashaya; I don't know if he's the Ghost, but the books did say that the Ghost worked with others. Not everyone in the Psy world is happy with how things are, so maybe he's a part of Ghost group. Beside, revolutions require large amounts of people. And in CBI, it was mentioned that vocal dissent in the Psy were being "silenced."

About Sienna/Hawke/Kaleb, I have been waiting for Sienna's book since STS, so anyone hooking up with her will make me happy (she can be single and I'll still be happy). For a moment some years ago, I thought she'd hook up with Kit, but Ms. Nalini did say Kit was too young.
One thing I do want to point out and discuss, since Mating is more of a Changeling thing, and although Sienna will be a SnowDance (of that I have no doubt, cuz she's that awesome), she and Kaleb are both Psy. They may fall in love, but I don't think it's possible for them to "Mate" per se. As for Sienna and Hawke, if Hawke's original mate is for sure dead, then for the two of them to hook up, it also wouldn't be "Mate" but would be something else entirely. It could be tied into Sienna's abilities. Also, the whole concept of Mating isn't completely written in stone. Only that males are more attune to understanding and able to make the final step, and that each Mating is slightly different.
As for Sienna's ability, Ms. Nalini's only hinted at it. Never came out to say what Sienna's first ability would be. Sienna may feel, but she hasn't broken Silence completely by the end of CBI. With Judd, he was unable to sense the mate connection with Brenna because Judd hadn't disabled it yet.
On a speculative side note, maybe Hawke'll be getting grumpier in the future books may be caused by Sienna's getting more popular with the other wolves. Eh? Likelihood yes?

I apologize for being bit random, spelling/grammar errors, and inability to name people/things/events/books. Still recoving from cold and away from books (the one day I'm away from them!!!!). >_<

Anonymous said...

It`s quite interesting to hear your opinions...
To agree with Alice: Yes, I tink too, that Sienna`ll be a SnowDancer. In CBI Judd says to his brother: "...she is a wolf...". So I think, that Siennas strength `ll play an important part in the further books. She "is" powerful. (Like a wolf).

And to refer to Hawke. - Why it seems to be Siennas "life-task" to annoy him in any ways at possible? Why he`s her so aggravating in his bearing?
If she don`t care about him; so why annoying him in such a manner?

And to refer Hawke: Why he`s so grumpy? - To lost his former mate is bad. But he was 10, when he lost her. In CBI he seems to have had acceptet that fact. And I don´t think he has lived till then like a monk.
And yes, I`d like to see him to get jealous! Wouldn`t this be quite interessting to note? - To envisage seeing Sienna make him jealous? ....But this is just a wishful thinking. (...It would be fun to watch the two like this).

Christina said...

I had assumed that Sienna wasn't a designation that we know yet. Since Telepathy is only a secondary power (and a powerful one at that, it seems), and Nalini has hinted that there are designations we haven't seen yet (on her main website).

As for the mating bond pull, we don't know for sure it hasn't manifested yet since no one has really talked about Hawke and Sienna. My feeling is that Hawke believes he has no chance at a mate so he wouldn't accept it or realize it for what it was when it did happen.

I think, like Barbara, that Kaleb has achieved his goal when he became the head of the council. I totally missed the bit about a mark on his arm, so I'll have to go back and reread. And I would be interested in seeing if Faith's dad has some connection with Kaleb. I agree that his joining the council is huge!

Anonymous, I would love to see Hawke Jealous too! (and if it was somehow with kaleb all the better ^_^) Maybe that will be the push he needs to recognize the mating bond between them.

Ms Alice, I missed the chat! It's nice to know that there were hints to make Mercy and Riley possible! (hopefully I'll get the transcript from Ms. Singh soon).

As for the ghost, before MTP, I thought it could be either Kaleb or Nightstar, and was leaning towards Nightstar. Kaleb seemed to be wanting to gain other political powers (like the council) although to what end I don't know. I can't see Kaleb wanting to "save" the psy race like he tells Judd (although his comment about wanting to make them the most powerful again does sound like him). Either way, it seems whoever the ghost is is inadvertently (maybe actually purposely) helping him with the eliminatin of the oldest councilor. And ever since Councilor Duncan made that connection, I have been curious!

And the discussion between the net mind and the darkmind was in Visions of Heat, I believe, when Faith communicates with the net mind.
And the couple on the council is Shoshanna and Henry

I really hope that we learn what Sienna can do, because I believe she will be important in either causing the revolution and tearing down the old order, or creating the new one (but, once again, that could be wishful thinking!)

I actually think that Hawke will be able to mate with someone (sienna, hint-hint Ms. Singh!) since Brenna said that she died before the mating bonds could really become attached or something. It's been awhile since I've read CBI so I forget the exact phrasing. So, Hawke is up for grabs and Sienna obviosly has some affect on him. Until Ms. Singh hints differently, it's a done deal in my book ^_^

alice chow said...

Quick note before I go back to a medicine induced sleep (cold medicine). In reference to Sienna's abilities- as I was re-reading STS, when Sascha first met the Lauren family and tried to sooth Marlee and Toby's hurt, Sienna was the only one to sense it. Maybe that has something to do with her abilities? Unless Sascha was reaching out to Sienna too.
I guess we're all just waiting for Ms. Nalini to give us a stronger hint. *wink*
Okay, off to bed I go. Have a good week everyone~~~

Christina said...

I wasn't sure over that either, Alice. When I read that initially, I thought she was able to sense what Sascha was trying to do. When we hear/learn from Judd that she is a strong telepath (among other things), I took that as confirmation. But maybe Sascha was trying to reach out to her too? She did mention she could feel Sienna had a lot of anger.

In MTP, was I the only one annoyed with Faith? I felt myself siding with Tally and wanting Faith to back off.

Aymless said...

All the posts have been great. Has me thinking of others

- I also like the whole idea of Hawke/Sienna pairing. Since she is the one that can annoy Hawke faster than anyone else in the Den.

- Kaleb... there is so much to think about. What's with the mark and how can it give him away if others saw it? I don't think he is the Ghost because in CBI Kaleb knew of the trials and number of participants long before Ghost let Judd know. If he where Ghost he would have let Judd know more of the details since they are working towards the same end.

- Anthony. Love the whole idea of him on the Council. Should be interesting to see how he changes the it and what his interaction with Faith will be now that he is council. I don't think he is Ghost either because in CBI he asks Faith and Vaughn about what they thought he should do about finding out more about the Ghost.

- Mercy... personally I don't get the whole Riley vibe here. He does annoy her (she thinking he is a stickinthemud rabid infested wolf and all) so maybe it'll turn into something interesting. Dunno.

Walker - I don't see him with Indigo or any other soldier-type. I think he needs someone nurturing. I was thinking more on the lines of Lara the healer.

Indigo - Love her. I see with someone who can take her in a fight. Should be interesting. Perhaps Ghost/another rebel Arrow.

Amara - I was wondering how she is related to Ashaya. I'm thinking sister/twin or mother. How about you?

Also I am still trying to find mention of Vasic. Ms. Nalini said he was in the excerpt for HTP but I can't seem to find him. *sigh*

Aymless said...

Ohh.. I forgot about Sienna. I really wonder what her main power is, per CBI it is something "volatile" and "lethal" and that telepathy is her secondary skill. Made me think of pyrokinetics or something along those lines. Something that can kill lots of people and is hard to control.

Christina said...

I personally would love to see a psy/psy pairing, but probably not until reconstruction. Walker . . . I agree with aymless, I can't see him with Indigo. I don't really see anyone for her yet, either.

Zoe M said...

I love this series! I am becoming more and more enthralled with each book published.

I have to say that Judd is my favorite male so far, with Vaughn a close second. I have high hopes for Walker's story!

Faith: I was also a little taken aback over Faith's treatment of Tally. I wish we could have had a glimpse into the development of Faith and Clay's friendship. It's obvious they became very close. I think those scenes would have been wonderful to read, but I guess they don't quite fit in with Clay and Tally's story.

I hope in future books we get to see how both Faith and Tally are settling into pack life.

Mercy: I definitely got the vibe that Mercy will end up with Riley. Nalini said that Mercy's mate is going to come as a suprise even to her. What is more surprising than mating with a wolf? Mating with humans is common among changelings, and two of her pack mates have already mated with psy.

Walker: I want Walker to be mated to Lara. I haven't read anything that gives me the feeling that will happen, but you never know.

Kaleb: Is he the Ghost? Hmmm, I haven't made up my mind on that one, but I do know that if he does have a perfect partner, she will need to be very powerful in her own right. Who might that be? It's too soon to tell, but I've been thinking about Sienna (although I agree it sounds like she will end up with Hawke), Indigo, and even Sahara Nightstar (Faith's cousin who disappeared at 16, and who Faith thought may have had violent predictions, possibly broken silence, and may be kept captive).

Xavier Perez: I'm impatiently waiting to see if Xavier will have his own story. He was the priest who was helping Judd and Ghost with their renegade actions. He seemed awfully provocative to me.

Hawke: I think Hawke may have a psy ancestor like Lucas does. In STS, Sascha noticed that he reacted to her gift the same as Lucas. What else would explain that?

Arrows: I really want to see more of this group. Was there a fallout when Judd abandoned rank? What happened to the Arrows who were in the experimental drug testing group with Judd? They knew they were not experiencing the bad side effects that Judd was pretending to have, yet they did not say anything to refute his claims. Did this group of Arrows band together somehow?

Psy/Psy Mating: I believe it is possible for two psys to have a bond that is similar to the mating bond, provided they are outside the psy net. After all, if a psy can mate with a changeling, why not another psy since they are psychic beings? I'm not sure about mating with a human though...

I have more to say, but have to get back to work...

alice chow said...

Christina-that's what I originally thought, that Sascha was trying to help Sienna as well, but I remember Sascha commenting on 1)the children were scared (Sienna beening a teen and not counted) and how Sienna keeping everything inside was not good in the long run. So I took it as Sascha helping the younger ones, but not Sienna.

Aymless- I didn't think about Lara/Walker pairing because I had somehow that Lara was already mated, of course, if that were true, Lara's Mate would have been following her around. It was just the whole episode with Ben got me thinking that she's already with someone. Hahaha, I'm so silly-my mistake. In that case, Walker and Lara would work. ^_^ I also like Indigo, so I was just being dorky and pairing up all the peeps I liked (with each other, ahahaha)

Mercy/Riley pair. I mainly thought of them aside from Mercy's wonderful responses and general happiness would be so great with Riley's gruffiness. Especially since they are the same rank (diff Packs) and she would be able to remind him of his place. It's just a wolf/cat pair would help solidify SnowDancer and DarkRiver's alliance. At least makes it more visible to both sides...and it'll cause lots of hilarious situations (in my head).

Zoe- I thought Priests don't, you know, hook up. So, Father Xavier would be more like a guiding light? As for Psy/Psy pairing, I think it's perfectly possible for loving couples to be together. I just thought the type of "Mated" bonds are more Changeling style. As in, different terms by different groups for the same "situation."
I do agree that it would have been nice to see how Faith and Clay became good friends. Although she annoyed me, I liked the fact that Faith wasn't immediately accepting of Tally for reasons aside from them still linked to the enemy. Am I even making sense? Anyhow, the idea that each character has their own illogical and selfish streaks makes them more real to me. Faith was annoying at time though, which is good (IMO). Show's diversity.

Sienna, Sienna, Sienna. I think the only reason I would want her to be with Hawke is for her to annoy the heck out of him. Hehehe. I really shouldn't take such joy in other's misery, but can't help wanting to see Hawke all riled up.
^_~

Christina said...

Zoe, I am so glad I am not the only one! I think it says something wonderful about Nalini's writing, though, that I can love Faith in her book and in CBI, but have total loyalty to Tally in Tally's book.

Ooh, Xavier! He keeps getting mentioned, which makes me wonder if he will get his own book. Or at least get more involved later on . . .

And I think Psy/Psy bonds would be possible outside the net, and so far Walker is the only one outside the net (so you can see where my thought process is going here ^_^)

And who doesn't like a Hawke all riled up, Alice? LOL. I think they would be good for each other (Hawke and Sienna). BUT, if for some reason Nalini doesn't agree, then I think Sienna and Kaleb would also make an awesome couple. Either way, (or any way Nalini writes it, really) I just want to see more of Sienna. I think she is my favorite character thus far.

Anonymous said...

First of all, I really love the whole series and MTP is most definitely up there in ranking (although they switch whenever I re-read them). Clay and Tally are amazing characters. I think the inclusion of Jon and Noor into the pack is interesting and I hope they continue making appearances in other books.
I was really hoping that Ming would be the ghost, but that doesn't seem very likely now. Nor Faith's father. I would think that Kaleb is the Ghost but, as previously mentioned, he seems to obvious. It mostly impossible, but I think it would be really cool if it was Henry b/c everyone tends to underestimate him. He's really seen as the weakest link in his marriage and the council.
I'm not completely convinced on the whole Mercy/Riley thing. I would think that each of them would have already felt the bond but it is possible that each changeling feels the bond differently so that they can't recognize it. I also wonder how it would affect their duties within the tribe b/c they would each have to be ready to run to meet their packs' needs and those might conflict. And also, just to be completely anal, where would they live and how would this affect the other other mate?
When Dev was first introduced, I automatically thought he would be perfect for Mercy. He's strong, powerful, sexy, and incredibly protective. He would fit right in with Darkriver. He would also add a lot of resources and information to the pack that would benefit them in the "war" against the psy.
I can't wait for Dorian's book and I'm really glad Sascha and Faith have an F-psy to help them out. I wonder why Keenan slipped into Darkriver web. Since it's emotion based, it could be that Dorian's protective emotions and Keenan's fear were the catalyst for that inclusion.
Sorry for dragging on and on, but like I said, I love these books!

Anonymous said...

The catalyst for Keenan's inclusion into the StarWeb was, imo, the accidentally established blood bond between Keenan and Dorian (who is in the Web). Remember how Dorian accidentally cut himself when he freed Keenan from his bonds? And how the child's wrists were scraped raw and bleeding? And then, just before Judd cuts Keenan connection to the PsyNet off, "Dorian held Keenan's hand, the boy's blood mixing with his own where he'd sliced open his palm."

~Adnana

Anonymous said...

Christina and Alice,
I`m glad that I`m not the only one who love Sienna Lauren! (I hope we`ll see more of her personality in the further books).
~ Eva

Aymless said...

Whee! Found Vasic! He's the Tk Arrow that takes Ashaya to the Center in the HtP excerpt. Ms. Nalini has hinted that he will be important. I'm thinking Ghost. Anyone else?

Been thinking about Dev. What about a Dev/Indigo or Dev/Mercy pairing. Either would be fun. Him = temper, Her = stong female. Could be a lot of fun.

Sahara is also supposed to be important. We don't know much about her other than she's Faith's cousin and an F-Psy. Hope we see her soon.

KJsGrrl said...

I'm glad I wasnt the only one who figured out the accidental blood bond Dorian established with Keenan in the excerpt. I cant wait!!

Some have mentioned that they were irritated with Faith's attitude to Tally in the beginning. To be honest, I wasnt at all. In fact, I was glad that she stood up to Tally and confronted her. As a member of the pack they like to stick their nose in each other's business. With Clay being so solitary and as mentioned in the books Clay and Faith had become close friends, it was only natural for Faith to question Tally's intentions. Good for her!

To be perfectly honest, I didnt like Tally at all until the dance scene where she was watching Sasha and Lucas and looked at them as if she would never reach that level of intimacy w/Clay. Up till that point, I just thought she was too self possessed and wrapped up in herself and her problems/past to ever open herself up to Clay.

The whole question of Hawke/Sienna mating keeps bringing up the one thing that gets stated in every book: changelings only mate once. They are only given one shot at a mate. If Sienna does end up as Hawke's mate this would obviously be the first time in changeling history that a second mating occured. I hope it happens, but I'm not holding my breath. This pairing seems too obvious -- and because we all want it so much, it may not happen! LOL

alice chow said...

Christina//Eva- So happy I'm not alone in thinking Sienna's awesome. ^_^ She's my favorite since the first of the series.
Hawke all riled up is just so funny (in my head).
For sure, I believe Father Xavier will be showing up in future books. Donno if he'll have his own story though. Once again, that would be after the Silence revolution and during reconstruction.

Anonymous-Honestly, I just threw Riley and Mercy together because it would've been funny. Anyone with Mercy would be awesome. I could see Dev with her as well, but from what I could gather, Dev might not have his own story until afterwards. Ms. Nalini's contract for Psy/Changeling only has 7 books at the moment. I know the publishers are going to ask for more, but until we get notified by Ms. Nalini on the good news, we only have one we book where the main characters have yet to be revealed. I like Dev though. And Max. Teehee.

Adnan-I totally did not think of the accidental cut causing the link between Dorian and Keenan. I didn't think Keenan's wrist were bleeding, but that's a great idea. It's probably due to me squeeling too much, hugging MTP, and jumping around with the book in leu to Dorian's book. Ah, now I want the book even more.

Amy/Aymless- You know me, I love strong women so, Mercy, Indigo, Sienna. Any of them would be hilarious in dealing with those stubborn males. Ehehehe, so excited.
Also, maybe Sahara defected as well and is a part of the group working with the Ghost. Which would also put a spin of Faith's sister, Marine's death if Marine worked with the Ghost. Thus, Vasic could also be working with Ghost. For all we know, maybe there are several Ghosts and they all work towards the same goal.

Kjsgrrl-Tally irritated me in the beginning as well. As you've already pointed out, Ms. Nalini's writings are wonderful. Tally was very realistic (both fragile, stubborn, and completely closed off after what happened to her). I could relate to her and understand why Tally was the way she was, but at the same time, want to shake her a bit for being so hardheaded. Then again, I'm biased to Clay. Again, for Faith, I could totally relate to her being a bit on the offensive side. Why should everyone suddenly be all friendly and welcoming to Tally who obviously isn't being open and accepting to others (even with Clay, who completely adores her)? It's normal for people to react in selfish ways and differently from each other. It shows variety in personalities. Okay, enough of my gushing and random analysis.

One thing I do want to bring up is whether Ms. Nalini misleads us, since there's discussions of so-and-so being too obvious in being the Ghost, or hooking up with so and so. Personally, I think Ms. Nalini's great in adding additional surprises into her stories. There are tons of "secrets" that pop out and we learn new things about the Psy/Changeling world. Overall though, I've never felt she tried to mislead us, or throw us a curve-ball on purpose (or like some authors, deliberately makes reader think one thing while leaving very minor-nonexistant hints to the truth <~~this really upsets me at time). Ms. Nalini does put her characters through a lot of angst and emotional turmoil, I never felt Ms. Nalini deliberately make the readers suffer. Yes, I've had writers do that and admit to doing such. It's one thing to torture the characters. Another to torture the readers. Teasing is completely different and we all know how well Ms. Nalini does that. ^_~
So, all that aside. I don't care who Sienna ends up with. I just know it's going to be totally worth the wait (and agony during the wait, just like all the other books ^_^).

So happy Dorian's book will be out soon.

xoxo,
Alice

Christina said...

Henry as the ghost, now that would be an interesting twist!

Nope, not alone Eva ^_^

Hmm, the blood bond would be interesting, Adnana, but I thought that it would be more because his mother is Dorian's mate, therefore making Keenan his, too. Can't wait for it to come out, though!

As for Faith and Clay, I didn't see it. I know we were told they were friends, but I just didn't get the vibe. Sticking her nose in I guess does show how she is adopting into the ways of the pack, and I guess becoming more emotional as well, but I for one just found myself incredibly defensive for Tally.

As for Hawke re-mating, I still believe that Brenna's statement in CBI is why he will have another mate (Sienna or otherwise, but I can't see him with anyone but sienna). She says that she (the first potential mate) died before they could solidify the mating bond between them (she was, 6 when she died?). I see that as the "out" in this one-time-mating-rule.

Alice, I have to agree with you. I don't think Nalini will completely yank the rug out from under us. After 4 books, I can't see that happening. She does tease, but we enjoy it, right? ^_^ But I don't think she completely misleads us, either. (Having said that, if she does I think we would all be incredibly shocked at the turn around). The wait, and the agony that goes with it, is totally worth it, IMO.

Anonymous said...

...Here`re my theory:
When Hawke`s "mate" was his one-time-mate, so his chance of a true mate is gone. But what is, if he only thought this? (He was young, maybe he mistaken something? Maybe he mistaken his feelings with a "long-time-relationship-bond"?) Or he has psy ancestors. So maybe he could connect his mind somehow with a psy mind? - This would be, at least, similar with a matingbond.
~ Eva

alice chow said...

I was totally doing something else work related when a thought just popped into my mind (this is so bad, because I really should be doing something else >_<). I don't quite know the spiritual/religious aspect in the Psy/Changeling world, but what if we put in reincarnation?
Hawke's in his thirtys. His mate died when he was ten. So...if there's reincarnation...then...
Am I making sense? Or am I just putting too much of whatever else I'm reading into this?
Okay, have to leave this site now. Write more later tonight (or tomorrow O_o).

Anonymous said...

Hm, reincarnation? - Alice, I don`t think this is the case. If we consider the possible whole storie ( ..with a possible war and so..), so I think Nalini is building up a second strong "MindNet". (Remember the last capitel in MtP. Where Sascha "see" the mind connections).- That`s the reason why I dont think of reincarnation.

..and to refer my former theory. Maybe Hawke ist the one who has a mental blockade. (If I´m not wrong, so it was Sacha who thought something similar in StS.) He can`t have a heroine, unless he "let out" all his "negative emotions". - This would, at least, explaine why he have to go rough at first. (I thout Nalini says something like this in one of her interview`s). - So I`m the opinion, that Sienna is the catalisator to "crash" this mind-barrier by annoying him in as many ways at possible.

..But if this is true? - Maybe "yes", maybe "no"... we`ll see it later...

~Eva

alice chow said...

Christina~Yes, we all love to be teased. I don't want to name names, but I don't think Joss Whedon would mind. Goodness knows I love his stuff (and follow it rather adamantly), but he's even said that he'll often kill off characters fans love. Or authors that write so you like a character a lot and it turns out that person's the killer, or something like that. Ms. Nalini's stuff never gave me that feeling, which is why I don't think she'll deliberately do anything mean to us readers. Just makes us live in this torturous wait...so painful. >_<
As for Tally/Faith. I was okay with how it went. Tally really did irritate me in the beginning and Faith's attitude made me want to shake her a bit, but I think I like this dynamic. It makes their personality more real with their diverse reactions and ability to make us, readers, react to them. Which, once again, show Ms. Nalini's foresight and great writing skills. Ah, I love these books.

Eva- The whole reincarnation thing didn't sound to true even in my head, but I was just doing some other stuff and it popped in my head and I gasped to throw it into the mix. You're probably more accurate in saying that Hawke's the one blocking any bonding (Brenna even said as much in CBI) and he'll need to let go of his anger first and open himself up. If he doesn't even think he can even have a mate, it's rather hard for him to bond with anyone.
I love Sienna so anyone with her is a-okay with me.

^_^
alice

Samantha said...

i was just randomly thinking this, but if two different changelings mate, (lets say one from SnowDancer and the other from DarkRiver) which animal would the child turn into?

Aymless said...

I'm of the opinion that Hawke hasn't officially mated therefore he can still have a mate (Sienna). I think he has a lot of negative emotion because he thinks he has lost is one and only chance to mate.

Alice - Love the whole "Marine worked for Ghost" theory. It totally works for me. Gives us a nice reason for her death.

Anonymous said...

Samantha, this is a good question. - Hm, ...I estimate this depends on the dominant genes. So I would say it`s depending on
e.g. Alpha-, Betha- or Omega-Status.
~Eva

Anonymous said...

..By the way I`ve read a book about wolves. The female alpha wolf is supposed to take over the hunt tactic.

~Eva

Sya said...

Mostly, I've been lurking here, enjoying all the theories that everyone is putting forth.

On the mating of two different changelings: I agree with the idea that the dominant genes will determine what the kid will be like. But I also speculate that a changeling cross will be a lot like different species crosses in real life (mules, zebra hybrids, wolf-dogs, ligers, etc.) Then again, it would be interesting if the kid had the option of changing into either a wolf or a leopard.

Also, I do not think dominance of genes would depend on alpha/beta/omega status which is socially based, not genetic. (Although Ms. Singh does mention in her books that Kit has a "whiff of future alpha" about him. Is this literal? If so--then maybe among changelings, there is a genetic component to social status.)

On theories about the identity of the Ghost--I doubt it is anyone who doesn't have direct access to the decisions made by the Council. This rules out Faith's father Anthony who was only invited to the Council in MtP by Kaleb. Also in MtP, the Ghost has a meeting with an official at a posh restaurant--which to me lowers the possibility of a rogue Arrow (other than Judd). The Arrows follow Ming's orders and it is doubtful that one would have a meeting with an official rather be sent in as a bodyguard. And I have a strong feeling that the Ghost is male, not female. So the Ghost would most likely be Kaleb despite his ties to Enrique. He knew about Protocol I. He's against the Scotts. He brought in Anthony into the Council. He has contact with the NetMind and the DarkMind, particularly controlling the latter--which indicates that he cares enough about the Psy race to prevent it from running amok.

Something I've been wondering about ever since CBI--what does everyone think of Kaleb's senior assistant, Silver Mercant? She certainly has access to sensitive information and she would have to be careful in choosing what info to leak or she would compromise her position. If my impression of the Ghost's gender wasn't so strong, I'd put my bet on her.

alice chow said...

Samantha- I kept asking Ms. Nalini during the chat and she won't tell us! She says we'll learn about it soon enough, but no straight answer!

Aymless- Doesn't it sound possible though? If Marine worked for the Council and the Council has little psychopath murders as pets; Marine being vocal about Protocal I while helping the Ghost with information, it's sounds plausible that the Council would want to hush Marine while at the same time, satisfying the killing urge of said psyco.

Eva- I'd like to agree, but am hesitant. In the books, it does show that psy/human and changeling/human children usually exhibit the unique powers of the parent with psy or changeling abilities. At the same time, Psy/psy children's abilies not only vary, but also gain multiple abilies, right? So, if we apply Changeling/changeling with the psy/psy category, than would it be possible to have both traits?
P.S. Which wolf book are you reading? It sounds interesting.

Sya- I also thought about the possiblity of cross-species, or having both options. If only Ms. Nalini would tell us now. >_<
I think the "smell" of Kit being alpha deals with more his own innate abilities than with genetics. If it was genetic, then it would be more along the lines of alpha producing alphas. My guess though.
I concur with your Ghost explanation. Why else would a Council member meet at some cafe so easily? If not the Ghost, Kaleb is someone related to him (either working together, or know of him). I didn't even think about his secretary. Good point, but I think we're correct to say the Ghost is a guy. Especially given all the conversation Judd's had with him, Ms. Nalini used male referencing.

One thing about the DarkMind, I was thinking back about Faith and the NetMind. Maybe the DarkMind was trying to contact her like the NetMind was, but Faith was unable to deal with it like Kaleb since she was more sheltered (IMO). The Arrows may follow Ming, but not all of them are happy. Judd defected. When he got the medics to take Jax off the Arrows, the others didn't complain. Kaleb is still most likely to be the Ghost.

I really want to read the books. This wait is really hard. I've been re-reading like crazy. Need more...Wanna know about Sienna...and Mercy. Funny how I'm more into the women in these books.

Anonymous said...

Alice, .. your theory sounds interesting. Maybe ancestor genes play an important role, too?

I read the wolf book in german. The titel is " Der Wolf" by Shaun Ellis and Monty Sloan. The autors are Americans, so it should be available in englisch. - It`s a very interesting illustrated book. (I learnt a lot new things about wolves).
~Eva

Sayuri said...

y two pennies worth in about Hawke and the re-mating buisiness.

I may be completely wrong but the way I read it was that Hawke would have mated with her if she hadn't been killed. At least that was his intention but they never actually were mated. The reason Hawke hasn't mated since is that he is basically greiving still.

SO he would be free to mate with Sienna. He just needs to stop living in the past.


Just a quick word to say I loved this book, even though I thought I was going to hate it for some reason. I thought Tally was a great character and a great foil for Clay who had real hidden depths.

Anonymous said...

Hmm. Tally never really grew on me to the point that I really like her a lot even understading all the things she had gone through. She seemed a litte too prickly/touchy/needy to me.

alice chow said...

Eva-I found the book, but they don't really sell it in english anymore. I'll probably check the local library. As for the genes, I think it should play some minor role, but it's up to Ms. Nalini to say...in the next book...and the next...oh, I want more to read now!

Sayuri- I agree that Hawke would have mated with that girl had she grown up (if she really was his mate, cuz he was 10...so, maybe he made a mistake?), but I believe actual Mate Bonds only happen once. The other option is to just mate with someone like what Nate's parents did. They weren't true mates, but they mated.
So, in the case with Sienna, if Hawke was to mate with her, it is possible, just not the actual bond thingy. Am I even making sense?

Tally is just Tally. I didn't know if I could like her in the beginning because, let's be honest here, she did tell Clay she died and that was just horribly cruel. At the same time, I could understand that she's had terrible childhood and it's taken her a long time to get better. Still, it was hard to give her for abandoning Clay. Anyhoo, my point is, I could understand and sympathize with her but she's not my favorite out of all the characters. *grin*

We all know I have a special place for Sienna...and Sascha, of course. And Brenna. They're my top faves. Okay, so I love them all.

One thing about the Sienna/Hawke thing. I wouldn't even have thought of the two of them until the people here (at CBI's thread) pointed it out. I do think there's a higher likelihood for them, but I think I'll be happy to just see everyone there happy. Minus the psychopaths...and sociopaths.

Very excited about the next books! Mercy mercy mercy. Teehee. So excited.

xoxo

Anonymous said...

Strangely... I thought of the two (Sienna & Hawke) since StS.
(The short scene at page 280/StS between Hawke and Sienna gave me the feeling that the two get together.
And in CbI/ page 283 "the gerneralization thing" looks like a connection).
...But maybe I`m wrong...
~Eva

alice chow said...

Eva- You're probably right (thanks for the page numbers, I have them marked down too-teehee). After people mentioned, then it became much more obvious that Sienna (at least) has a thing for Hawke.

During StS, I had assumed Hawke was being a good leader or something like he would with other pack members (especially younger and female). Although Sienna sitting up straight after the "sweeheart" exchange kind of revealed her feelings.

In CBI, it was Judd saying Sienna making it her life's purpose to annoy Hawke (p.74) and the whole door slamming episode that kind of hinted at them.

VoH also hinted a little, if only the fact that Hawke and Sienna being linked together is well known in the pack, enough that Indigo commented on his "being easy" on Sienna. Right before Hawke told Indigo to train Sienna *g* (I do like Indigo). Don't have time to search up the page.

I just never put it together; mainly cuz of the age. He is 32 and she is 17. That is a 15 year age gap. Not too big of a shocker, but still enough for me to not even think of them when I first read StS.

Once in CBI, it became a bit more obvious, but I still didn't think much of it. Sienna and Hawke would be cute together, but I think Sienna need to leave the nest (so to speak) first before she'll be truly able to handle Hawke. Whereas Hawke gotta let go some of his resentment and inner angst/rage/etc.

First though, Dorian. And then Mercy (woohoo). We'll see what the last book is about. Teehee

xoxo,
Alice

Anonymous said...

Alice, I see - we both really love this girl:-). (I´ll read through her story on one day).

I think the age difference isn`t so bad. With Sienna`s growing age it`ll be relative.

"To leave the nest". - Great idea. Maybe Sienna leave the den for a few months and Hawke is missing something..? (Lovely idea,hm?)

Yes, I´m looking forward to Dorians and Mercys story. (It`s so hard to wait! - Though Nalini is really a fast writer).

~Eva

alice said...

Eva- So glad Ms. Nalini is a fast writer or I'd be tearing my hair out.
Hehehe, Ms. Nalini said Sienna's story will be coming so we can look foward to her story very very soon. Right after Dorian and Mercy...hopefully.
Right now, Sienna is still pretty much sheltered and protected within the pack. Even though I have no idea how she can leave cuz she'll be recognized easily, but I somehow feel she needs to find herself a bit more before settling down (so to speak).
Somehow, the idea of Hawke missing her sounds very appealing. Ah, just thinking about it...hehehe

The age difference isn't bad at all. It's just from personal experience that large gaps does make a huge difference depending on the guys (it's usually always them, haha). Also the fact Ms. Nalini has several stories with larger age differences.

~Alice

Anjeni said...

Hello guys! I hope I don't incur the wrath of diehard MTP fans...but I thoroughly disliked Talin from the beginning. By the end of the book I had a gradual acceptance to the fact she was Clay's mate and that's who he wanted.
The fact that she left him to think she was dead, and then never bothered to find him till she needed help was utterly cruel and selfish.
When Talin did decide to grow a backbone, I thought she was juvenille and spiteful.
That's just my feelings though.
Other than that, I loved the storyline, and the unfolding of events.
I can't wait for Dorian's story.
::sigh::

Anonymous said...

Siennas story`ll be comming... -This sounds v-e-r-y good, Alice!

The "leave thought" of Sienna: I thought more of another changeling pack (allies) than of running around between puplic.
But I`ve the feeling in Mercy`s story, where Hawkes mood `ll get more worse, Nalini`ll show us more. (If Sienna is really Hawke`s).

Anjeni, I understand very good your feelings about Talin in MtP.
- Nalini is really good in creating a complex character.
I´m just reading some of her other books and can only again and again confirm this.

Anonymous said...

..Oh! I forget to sign my opinion.
~Eva

Christina said...

Eva: I completely agree with you on the idea that Sienna is the one to be the catalyst to Hawke's psyche (whether there is a mind blockade, maybe. I am anxious to find out, lol).

While I think there is a genetic part of social status (at least with Alpha's), I am not sure what will happen with a child from mixed changeling genes. I think it would be a matter of dominant genes from one changeling parent, or something like a liger.

As for Hawke, I think he would have mated with her when they were older. I don't think that is something he would have been drastically wrong about even at 10, since mating seems pretty ingrained and natural to a changeling. I have been rooting for Hawke/Sienna since StS and am eagerly waiting for their story/stories. And I always thought that it would take something drastic, like Sienna leaving the nest, for Hawke to wake up and recognize his feelings or act on them.

I think I am one of the few who liked Tally from the start. It was wrong to tell Clay she died, but she had just gone through years of tramautizing experiences and abuse, and even after everything she still tried to protect Clay through her silence (and, in her own head, by keeping him away from her). Like Sienna needs to learn to stand on her own feet, it was important for Tally to learn to stand on her own, too. After years of abuse where she leaned on Clay, she had to learn to rely on herself (then Clay could enter back into her life and help her build her self-worth and confidence again even better)

Anonymous said...

My take on the Hawke/Serena deal -
Hawke could be one of the Changeling Forgotten with F-Psy potential. Then his feeling that she was his mate is in line with his abilities, but since the future changed, so did the possibility of matehood. His psy abilities are blocking his connection to Serena ('cause he's so powerful), on top of that Serena has not broken Silence the way Judd has (she's scared to), so Hawke's wolf might not be able to sense it (just like Brenna's couldn't). Add to the fact that Serena is not part of the pack, only Tobey & Marlee were. Then Judd became one when he became a sentinel/bonded with Brenna. While Walker and Serena are welcomed, nowhere is it noted that they are pack members.

Mercy & Walker (wonder what his psychic twist is)?

TKD said...

I LOVE the series and re-reading the books out of order has given me some pretty wild suspicions about character relationships.

I suspect that even without a blood bond (isn't an alpha the one to establish one) Dorian's connection to Keenan is actually BIOLOGICAL via his "slab of marble" experience (related in STS).

The Ghost's guilty conscience about past deeds points strongly to Kaleb Krychek, who has the reputation for making his targets go clinically insane (see VOH). His influence on the Darkmind and Netmind may show a strong F-Psy subdesignation. Could he have targetted Judd Lauren's dead sister (see CBI) specifically to position Judd to become a renegade who could help defeat Santano Enrique and stop Protocol I?

SOMEBODY, besides Ms. Singh, seems to be selecting the Psy and their specific order for leaving the PsyNet to eventually save the Psy from Silence. Judd told Siena his suspicion that his sister was targeted because the Lauren Family has strong talents as a group! Add Sasha, Faith, and Ayasha, and the collection of formidable Psy talent outside the Net is undeniable.

I am counting the minutes until Hostage to Pleasure goes on sale!!

Christina said...

tkd, I didn't even think there might be a biological link to it! That would make sense! To your wonderful argument, I am going to add maybe that is why she is so protective of her son (abnormally so, for a psy) because she doesn't want the council to know how he was conceived and is half-changling? Now I am desparate for HtP to find out how this works out. . .

And I've wondered too, about the order of the people leaving the net. First the Laurens with an arrow, a powerful-yet-don't-know-how Sienna, and Walker (I am also waiting to see what his psychic twist is ^_^) and then we started adding all of these other psys into the mix.

It will all be interesting to watch come together.

tkd said...

Christina, the "slab of marble" incident hardly registered as significant when I first read STS, but as the series has progressed it seems CATACLYSMIC!! Any theories on why a science student Psy would hook up with Dorian? Knowing Psy priorities, it couldn't be just because he's hot looking or has a reputation for skill in the sack. And what characteristic distinguishes Dorian from every other Changeling we've met? Do you see what I see...?

Anonymous said...

Can't be a biological link. Remember Clay and Dorian didn't sense Keenan's beast? If his mother had been the Psy Dorian had had sex with, Keenan would be half changeling which means they would've sensed it. It was the blood mixing.

Christina said...

Would they have sensed it if his changeling half was not his dominant half? Especially if they weren't looking for it? I don't think they would expect it going in, and therefore wouldn't try to sense/reach out to his changeling half. *shrugs* another theory, until the book comes out ^_^

tkd-- I thought it significant when I read StS, but since then i have been so busy theorizing other characters/plots, I didn't give it much thought since then. I am now!

tkd said...

Chistina I'm with you -- they just weren't looking for it!! The guys were pretty distracted what with anticipating a Psy attack and cutting Keenan's PsyNet link! Neither Clay nor Dorian so much as sniffed for the bad Psy 'stink' on Keenan much less tried to sense 'his beast.' When Judd speculated on the possibility of Keenan having some Changeling blood, Clay shot it down saying only that if Keenan did, he'd be able to shift, forgetting all about Dorian's latency.

And WHY is Keenan so valuable that even the Council has an interest in his training? And why so much sensory deprivation when transporting a small child? Could Keenan have Changeling style sensory awareness?

I think the Council would be EXTREMELY interested in adding Changeling psysical and sensory strength to their own genetic arsenal -- without the vulnerability of actually shifting. Judd certainly assumed Changelings are vulnerable when shifting.

Oh yeah and Enrique's tortures included experiments on how to FORCE and LOCK a Changeling shift. AND the Psy are now distributing a street drug (a version of Jax?) that FORCES and CONTORTS a Changeling shift.

Will September never come? I would KILL for an advance copy of Hostage to Pleasure!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh, I'm getting more and more excited for Dorian's book with all these new ideas! Just one point: wouldn't Dorian have recognized Ashaya from the 'slab-of-marble' incident?

Sara

Sya said...

Here's something that made me pause while I re-read MtP: Jonquil described Ashaya's eyes as "wolf" during his interactions with her.

I could be totally wrong from missing something, but I still think that the connection between Dorian and Keenan was due to the literal blood bond created when Keenan was extracted. Dorian didn't recognize Ashaya when he first saw her. And I think Keenan's visits to his father is to his real father. If her son has any changeling blood at all, it's probably not leopard. Hm...

Anonymous said...

I gotta disagree. I think the changelings would've sensed/smelled any changeling genes/blood. Clay implied as much. They all knew that there was something different about Sascha. You want me to believe that they wouldn't sense the animal in Keenan?

tkd said...

HAH! How many times have high ranking Leopards NOT scented relevant information about Psy or Humans at a first encounter? ONLY in about every book!! Scent is too often an afterthought for them. Instead they get distracted looking for visual or behavioral cues.

Did Dorian remark on whether Ashaya "stank" of Silence when he met her? No, he did not!! He mentioned nothing about her SCENT when he made his report to Lucas and the Sentinels. He spoke only of her looks and behavior.

And how did Dorian manage to have sex with the "slab of marble" if she stank of Silence? She apparently did NOT smell of arousal, so why did he follow through?

And has Vaughn commented on Anthony Kriakus' scent yet? How does it compare to the other Council Members? Wouldn't that information be potentially useful?

When the Changelings are so sloppy about Psy scent distinctions, I bet they'd be sloppier about Changeling scents -- particularly their own!! If Dorian were Keenan's father, they would likely have similar scents -- especially difficult to distinguish with one in the other's lap and them both bleeding!

Zie Zen is the fatal flaw to my "Keenan is Dorian's Son" theory. My longshot theory on Keenan's Psy father involves Ashaya's DNA sequencing expertise (see MTP). Perhaps both Zie Zen and Dorian contributed DNA to Keenan.

Christina said...

I think that maybe if they weren't under duress, or had the slightest hint of any changeling blood, they might have sensed it (or tried to sense it). BUT, since not everything is exactly by-the-book, or always following a pattern. If that was the case, then when Brenna and Judd mated, why weren't the other Laurens (and others that should presumably be attached to Brenna) not part of the Lauren net? Nalini said she had a reason for it, so I would assume there would be an explanation for not sensing changeling genes.

I have to reread the passage, but how good of a look did Dorian get of her? I thought she tried to keep herself in the shadows or something (sorry for the vague reference, it's been awhile since I've read it). So maybe he wouldn't remember a one-night-stand with a block of ice, but she would if a child was conceived from it?

TKD, I love your question on Anthony's scent. Has Faith's father's scent ever been mentioned? I can't remember . . .

Sya said...

I think the LaurenNet is not attached to the rest of the SnowDancers because Brenna is not a Lieutenant and there are no bonds to adult siblings (since there aren't any in the DarkRiver web and Sasha theorized that the bonds to Tamsyn's twins would also drop out once they got older). Although Judd is blood-bonded to Hawke and he definitely felt some sort of psychic connection develop with the alpha, perhaps that bond isn't exactly active due to being masked by other bonds/problems. After all, Judd's still hooked up to the LaurenNet and mated to Brenna. On the other side, Hawke seems like he has some emotional issues yet to be worked out.

Vaughn mentioned near the end of VoH (p. 318) that Faith, Sasha, Anthony, and Judd did not have the characteristic metallic stink of Psy immersed in Silence. The only other Councilor that the Changelings have personally met is Nikita--but I don't think her smell was ever mentioned. For some reason, I'm thinking that Dorian didn't yet have the opportunity to scent Ashaya--he was looking at her through a sniper's rifle. And maybe she was standing downwind.

tkd said...

SYA, But there was ONE other counsellor that Dark River got a good scent of -- Enrique!! But apparently Dorian was too busy tearing him apart to note how intense his Psy stink was compared to that of Sasha or the mysterious "slab of marble."

In CBI, Mercy teased Dorian about alerting the "Sentinal chasers" about what it takes to get in his pants. If Dorian is as choosy as her comment indicates, one would think the "slab of marble' encounter would be especially memorable.

Any guesses about the seductive wiles of a Psy under Silence? Or was telepathic mind control involved?

Anonymous said...

Seductive wiles of a Psy under silence is a bit of an oxymoron, don't you think? For the Psy that Dorian had that encounter with, it was a science experiment. No emotion, no feeing, nothing. This is a woman that didn't realize there would be an emotional backwash when her son left the net.

tkd said...

Whoa!! By "seductive wiles" I was asking what a Psy under Silence could have used to lure Dorian rather than any emotional intent.

Male Changelings are in part drawn to a female's scent -- especially arousal. Would the Psy have used an applied phermone or something? I just think it would take something more compelling than good looks and a bald invitation since much more is available in the Changeling/Human community.

Otherwise... was Dorian forced into the encounter by a telepathic compulsion? That might explain part of his distate of the memory.

Christina said...

tkd, I got what you were asking. I wondered about it, too. Was it merely curiosity because I can't see Dorian (or any changeling, really) being attracted to any Psy who is still in silence (to clarify, Sascha and Faith were never in as deep as most psy are).

tkd said...

Christina,

Only a couple more weeks until all our questions are answered -- I hope!!!

Maybe some Psy register a change in scent when they begin to question Silence although they are still 'deep' in it -- like Judd was.

I'm hungry for a "Meanwhile back in the den..." update on the status of Silence for Siena and Walker Lauren. Has Judd released only his niece as promised, and how have Marlee & Toby responded to more open affection? Had they previously felt cheated by Silence?

AND has a post-Silence Siena realized whose bones she needs to jump yet? Maybe Hawk's or even Indigo's! There appears to be an elaborate 'Anger turns to Passion' scenario in the works there.

I can't wait!!

tkd said...

Christina,

Only a couple more weeks until all our questions are answered -- I hope!!!

Maybe some Psy register a change in scent when they begin to question Silence although they are still 'deep' in it -- like Judd was.

I'm hungry for a "Meanwhile back in the den..." update on the status of Silence for Siena and Walker Lauren. Has Judd released only his niece as promised, and how have Marlee & Toby responded to more open affection? Had they previously felt cheated by Silence?

AND has a post-Silence Siena realized whose bones she needs to jump yet? Maybe Hawk's or even Indigo's! There appears to be an elaborate 'Anger turns to Passion' scenario in the works there.

I can't wait!!